{"id":384,"date":"2004-03-14T11:20:41","date_gmt":"2004-03-14T10:20:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/wordpress\/blog\/erst-das-essen-dann-die-aesthetik\/"},"modified":"2023-12-18T08:49:50","modified_gmt":"2023-12-18T07:49:50","slug":"erst-das-essen-dann-die-aesthetik","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2004\/03\/erst-das-essen-dann-die-aesthetik\/","title":{"rendered":"Erst das Essen, dann die \u00c4sthetik"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"shariff shariff-align-flex-start shariff-widget-align-flex-start\"><ul class=\"shariff-buttons theme-white orientation-horizontal buttonsize-small\"><li class=\"shariff-button mastodon shariff-nocustomcolor\" style=\"background-color:#563ACC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/s2f.kytta.dev\/?text=Erst%20das%20Essen%2C%20dann%20die%20%C3%84sthetik https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kritische-masse.de%2Flogbuch%2F2004%2F03%2Ferst-das-essen-dann-die-aesthetik%2F\" title=\"Bei Mastodon teilen\" aria-label=\"Bei Mastodon teilen\" role=\"button\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\" class=\"shariff-link\" style=\"; 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Beteiligte: Heinz Lubasz, Herbert Marcuse, J\u00fcrgen Habermas und Tilman Spengler. Ja und Nein, im Prinzip kreiseln alle.<br \/>\n<br \/>\n<cite>MARCUSE Die <i>citoyen<\/i> ist ja nicht mehr jeder beliebige, <i>citoyens<\/i> sind die Menschen, die bereits anders geworden sind.<\/p>\n<p>LUBASZ Die m\u00fcssen in der Mehrzahl sein.<\/p>\n<p>HABERMAS Im Prinzip alle.<\/p>\n<p>LUBASZ Ja.<\/p>\n<p>MARCUSE Nein, nicht alle.<\/p>\n<p>LUBASZ Doch, im Prinzip alle.<\/p>\n<p>SPENGLER Wir kreiseln.<\/p>\n<p>HABERMAS Wir kreiseln. Ich finde, wir sollten zur \u00e4sthetischen Theorie \u00fcbergehen ..<\/p>\n<p>SPENGLER Ich schlage vor, etwas zu essen.<\/p>\n<p>HABERMAS Ja.<\/p>\n<p>MARCUSE Das geh\u00f6rt auch zur \u00c4sthetik.<\/p>\n<p>LUBASZ Erst das Essen, dann die Moral &#8230;<\/p>\n<p>SPENGLER Und dann die \u00c4sthetik. Das ist eine ganz neue Definition des Geschichte.<\/p>\n<p>III.<\/p>\n<p>HABERMAS Also, lieber Herbert, nachdem wir uns an Tafelspitz und Wiener Schnitzeln gest\u00e4rkt haben, gehen wir zur \u00c4sthetik \u00fcber.<\/p>\n<p>MARCUSE Freut mich.<\/p>\n<p><i>Habermas, Bovenschen u.a.: Gespr\u00e4che mit Herbert Marcuse, Frankfurt am Main, 1981, S. 38<\/i><\/cite><\/p>\n<div class=\"shariff shariff-align-flex-start shariff-widget-align-flex-start\"><ul class=\"shariff-buttons theme-white orientation-horizontal buttonsize-small\"><li class=\"shariff-button mastodon shariff-nocustomcolor\" style=\"background-color:#563ACC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/s2f.kytta.dev\/?text=Erst%20das%20Essen%2C%20dann%20die%20%C3%84sthetik https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kritische-masse.de%2Flogbuch%2F2004%2F03%2Ferst-das-essen-dann-die-aesthetik%2F\" title=\"Bei Mastodon teilen\" aria-label=\"Bei Mastodon teilen\" role=\"button\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\" class=\"shariff-link\" style=\"; background-color:#6364FF; color:#6364FF\" target=\"_blank\"><span class=\"shariff-icon\" style=\"fill:#6364FF\"><svg width=\"75\" height=\"79\" viewBox=\"0 0 75 79\" fill=\"none\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\"><path d=\"M37.813-.025C32.462-.058 27.114.13 21.79.598c-8.544.621-17.214 5.58-20.203 13.931C-1.12 23.318.408 32.622.465 41.65c.375 7.316.943 14.78 3.392 21.73 4.365 9.465 14.781 14.537 24.782 15.385 7.64.698 15.761-.213 22.517-4.026a54.1 54.1 0 0 0 .01-6.232c-6.855 1.316-14.101 2.609-21.049 1.074-3.883-.88-6.876-4.237-7.25-8.215-1.53-3.988 3.78-.43 5.584-.883 9.048 1.224 18.282.776 27.303-.462 7.044-.837 14.26-4.788 16.65-11.833 2.263-6.135 1.215-12.79 1.698-19.177.06-3.84.09-7.692-.262-11.52C72.596 7.844 63.223.981 53.834.684a219.453 219.453 0 0 0-16.022-.71zm11.294 12.882c5.5-.067 10.801 4.143 11.67 9.653.338 1.48.471 3 .471 4.515v21.088h-8.357c-.07-7.588.153-15.182-.131-22.765-.587-4.368-7.04-5.747-9.672-2.397-2.422 3.04-1.47 7.155-1.67 10.735v6.392h-8.307c-.146-4.996.359-10.045-.404-15.002-1.108-4.218-7.809-5.565-10.094-1.666-1.685 3.046-.712 6.634-.976 9.936v14.767h-8.354c.109-8.165-.238-16.344.215-24.5.674-5.346 5.095-10.389 10.676-10.627 4.902-.739 10.103 2.038 12.053 6.631.375 1.435 1.76 1.932 1.994.084 1.844-3.704 5.501-6.739 9.785-6.771.367-.044.735-.068 1.101-.073z\"\/><defs><linearGradient id=\"paint0_linear_549_34\" x1=\"37.0692\" y1=\"0\" x2=\"37.0692\" y2=\"79\" gradientUnits=\"userSpaceOnUse\"><stop stop-color=\"#6364FF\"\/><stop offset=\"1\" stop-color=\"#563ACC\"\/><\/linearGradient><\/defs><\/svg><\/span><span class=\"shariff-text\" style=\"color:#6364FF\">teilen<\/span>&nbsp;<\/a><\/li><li class=\"shariff-button bluesky shariff-nocustomcolor\" style=\"background-color:#84c4ff\"><a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/intent\/compose?text=Erst%20das%20Essen%2C%20dann%20die%20%C3%84sthetik https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kritische-masse.de%2Flogbuch%2F2004%2F03%2Ferst-das-essen-dann-die-aesthetik%2F \" title=\"Bei Bluesky teilen\" aria-label=\"Bei Bluesky teilen\" role=\"button\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\" class=\"shariff-link\" style=\"; 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Juli 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"Vor kurzem war auch Weltersch\u00f6pfungstag. Es ist der Tag an dem die menschliche Nachfrage nach nachwachsenden Rohstoffen das Angebot und die Kapazit\u00e4t der Erde zur Reproduktion dieser Ressourcen in diesem Jahr \u00fcbersteigt. Was k\u00f6nnte das mit unserem Kulturleben zu tun haben?\u00a0Einiges.","rel":"","context":"In &quot;die Kunst&quot;","block_context":{"text":"die Kunst","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/angriffauf\/die-kunst\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":8820,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2019\/06\/die-nullte-gewalt\/","url_meta":{"origin":384,"position":2},"title":"Die Nullte Gewalt","author":"der huflaikhan","date":"18. Juni 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Heute kann der Philosoph und Soziologe J\u00fcrgen Habermas seinen 90. Geburtstag feiern. Den meisten unserer Leserinnen und Lesern d\u00fcrfte er nicht aufgefallen sein durch eine besondere Affinit\u00e4t zu musikalischen oder auch im weiteren Sinn \u00e4sthetischen Fragestellungen. Gleichwohl ist er einer der bedeutendsten Vertreter in Fragen der Analyse von Ver\u00e4nderungen im\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;die Kommunikation&quot;","block_context":{"text":"die Kommunikation","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/angriffauf\/die-kommunikation\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Ein toter Vogel. Foto: Hufner","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/toter_vogel_c_hufner-900x500.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/toter_vogel_c_hufner-900x500.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/toter_vogel_c_hufner-900x500.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/toter_vogel_c_hufner-900x500.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":10006,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2024\/07\/kraterkunde-mit-jan-b-claudia-roths-streiche-troedel-mit-vernunft\/","url_meta":{"origin":384,"position":3},"title":"Kraterkunde mit Jan B. \u2013 Claudia Roths Streiche \u2013 Tr\u00f6del mit Vernunft","author":"der huflaikhan","date":"31. Juli 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Wolfgang Rihm ist gestorben. Das ganze musikalische Weltnetz ist voll von Nachrufen und Erinnerungen in den sozialen Medien. Selbst in den Nachrichten von ARD und ZDF hat er einen kleinen Meldungsplatz bekommen. So zweifellos Wolfgang Rihm die musikalische Landschaft in Deutschland seit den sp\u00e4ten 70er-Jahren gepr\u00e4gt hat und so sehr\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;die Kunst&quot;","block_context":{"text":"die Kunst","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/angriffauf\/die-kunst\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Hier gibt's Descartes, Hume, Thomas und abgelaufene Vernunft zu guten Preisen. \u00a9 MH","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/Hier-gibts-Descartes-Hume-Thomas-und-abgelaufene-Vernunft-zu-guten-Preisen.-%C2%A9-MH.jpg?fit=960%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/Hier-gibts-Descartes-Hume-Thomas-und-abgelaufene-Vernunft-zu-guten-Preisen.-%C2%A9-MH.jpg?fit=960%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/Hier-gibts-Descartes-Hume-Thomas-und-abgelaufene-Vernunft-zu-guten-Preisen.-%C2%A9-MH.jpg?fit=960%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/Hier-gibts-Descartes-Hume-Thomas-und-abgelaufene-Vernunft-zu-guten-Preisen.-%C2%A9-MH.jpg?fit=960%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":2883,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2009\/06\/nicht-habermas-nicht-marx-bach\/","url_meta":{"origin":384,"position":4},"title":"Nicht Habermas, nicht Marx: Bach","author":"huflaikhan","date":"9. Juni 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Kapital und Interessen, Meine Schulden gro\u00df und klein M\u00fcssen einst verrechnet sein. Alles, was ich schuldig blieben, Ist in Gottes Buch geschrieben Als mit Stahl und Demantstein.","rel":"","context":"In \"Johann Sebastian Bach\"","block_context":{"text":"Johann Sebastian Bach","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/tag\/johannsebastianbach\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1990,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2007\/01\/warum-ich-luhmann-verstehe\/","url_meta":{"origin":384,"position":5},"title":"Warum ich Luhmann verstehe?","author":"huflaikhan","date":"3. Januar 2007","format":false,"excerpt":"Erstmal. Ich verstehe gar nix. Luhmann ist, sozialisationsbedingt, b\u00e4h (kurzes \u201e\u00e4\u201c). Was ich dann verstehe, ist so banal, dass es kaum zu glauben ist, dass das vorher niemand so gesagt haben soll. Zum Beispiel: \u201eBeobachtet man das reformierte System, hat man den Eindruck, da\u00df das Hauptresultat von Reformen die Erzeugung\u2026","rel":"","context":"Mit 2 Kommentaren","block_context":{"text":"Mit 2 Kommentaren","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2007\/01\/warum-ich-luhmann-verstehe\/#comments"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/384","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=384"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/384\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=384"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=384"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=384"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}