{"id":8496,"date":"2014-10-08T08:00:04","date_gmt":"2014-10-08T06:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blogs.nmz.de\/wm2014\/?p=850"},"modified":"2014-10-08T08:00:04","modified_gmt":"2014-10-08T06:00:04","slug":"das-ich-im-ich-in-der-musik","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2014\/10\/das-ich-im-ich-in-der-musik\/","title":{"rendered":"Das Ich im Ich in der Musik"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In einem <a href=\"http:\/\/www.arte.tv\/guide\/de\/047168-006\/philosophie\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Beitrag auf ARTE widmete man sich der Frage des Wartens<\/a>. Dabei wurde ein franz\u00f6sischer Philosoph (Nicolas Grimaldi) von\u00a0Rapha\u00ebl Enthoven interviewt, der unter anderem sagte (ich zitiere aus der Erinnerung),<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Genuss, den man nicht teilen kann, kann man nicht (so gut) genie\u00dfen.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Auch wenn es in der Philosophie mit dem erinnerten Zitieren etwas hakelig ist, denn in Philosophie geht es ja gerade um die Nuancen, m\u00fcsste es so gewesen sein. Er sagt:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Ein nicht geteilter Genuss, ist kein Genuss. (Minute 17:17)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Er erw\u00e4hnte das Essen, wenn man alleine isst. Das sei weniger angenehm als dies in der Runde zu tun. Das kann ich sofort best\u00e4tigen. Aber dann dachte ich an die Musik. Die Musik kann ich sehr wohl genie\u00dfen, <em>selbst wenn ich es allein tue<\/em>. Ich muss das nicht mitteilen, um in den vollen Genuss zu kommen.<\/p>\n<p>Vielleicht stimmt aber doch Grimaldis These und meine Dissenz dazu. Denn vielleicht kann ich diesen Genuss der Musik in mir selbst teilen. In mir mit mir. Auch in anderen F\u00e4llen der Kontemplation, beim Betrachten von Kunstwerken der Bildenden Kunst oder beim Lesen von B\u00fcchern, geht dies ja doch auch sehr gut allein. Gruppen-Kontemplation scheint mir immer etwas <em>zwangig<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/sOth_6jHl-I?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=de-DE&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/p>\n<p>Vielleicht ist es aber auch ganz anders.<\/p>\n<p>Und die zweite Frage, die ich mir stellte: Es ist aber schon interessant, dass es offenbar ein ganz besonderer Genuss ist, Musik zusammen mit mehreren zu h\u00f6ren, die das Mith\u00f6ren dann teilen. Also die Frage: Wie \u00e4ndert sich Musik eigentlich, wenn man sie allein oder in der Gruppe zu h\u00f6ren bekommt. 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Dabei wurde ein franz\u00f6sischer Philosoph (Nicolas Grimaldi) von\u00a0Rapha\u00ebl Enthoven interviewt, der unter anderem sagte (ich zitiere aus der Erinnerung), Genuss, den man nicht teilen kann, kann man nicht (so gut) genie\u00dfen. Auch wenn es in der Philosophie mit dem erinnerten Zitieren etwas hakelig [&hellip;]<\/p>\n<div class=\"shariff\"><ul class=\"shariff-buttons theme-white orientation-horizontal buttonsize-small\"><li class=\"shariff-button mastodon shariff-nocustomcolor\" style=\"background-color:#563ACC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/s2f.kytta.dev\/?text=Das%20Ich%20im%20Ich%20in%20der%20Musik https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kritische-masse.de%2Flogbuch%2F2014%2F10%2Fdas-ich-im-ich-in-der-musik%2F\" title=\"Bei Mastodon teilen\" aria-label=\"Bei Mastodon teilen\" role=\"button\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\" class=\"shariff-link\" style=\"; background-color:#6364FF; color:#6364FF\" target=\"_blank\"><span class=\"shariff-icon\" style=\"fill:#6364FF\"><svg width=\"75\" height=\"79\" viewBox=\"0 0 75 79\" fill=\"none\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\"><path d=\"M37.813-.025C32.462-.058 27.114.13 21.79.598c-8.544.621-17.214 5.58-20.203 13.931C-1.12 23.318.408 32.622.465 41.65c.375 7.316.943 14.78 3.392 21.73 4.365 9.465 14.781 14.537 24.782 15.385 7.64.698 15.761-.213 22.517-4.026a54.1 54.1 0 0 0 .01-6.232c-6.855 1.316-14.101 2.609-21.049 1.074-3.883-.88-6.876-4.237-7.25-8.215-1.53-3.988 3.78-.43 5.584-.883 9.048 1.224 18.282.776 27.303-.462 7.044-.837 14.26-4.788 16.65-11.833 2.263-6.135 1.215-12.79 1.698-19.177.06-3.84.09-7.692-.262-11.52C72.596 7.844 63.223.981 53.834.684a219.453 219.453 0 0 0-16.022-.71zm11.294 12.882c5.5-.067 10.801 4.143 11.67 9.653.338 1.48.471 3 .471 4.515v21.088h-8.357c-.07-7.588.153-15.182-.131-22.765-.587-4.368-7.04-5.747-9.672-2.397-2.422 3.04-1.47 7.155-1.67 10.735v6.392h-8.307c-.146-4.996.359-10.045-.404-15.002-1.108-4.218-7.809-5.565-10.094-1.666-1.685 3.046-.712 6.634-.976 9.936v14.767h-8.354c.109-8.165-.238-16.344.215-24.5.674-5.346 5.095-10.389 10.676-10.627 4.902-.739 10.103 2.038 12.053 6.631.375 1.435 1.76 1.932 1.994.084 1.844-3.704 5.501-6.739 9.785-6.771.367-.044.735-.068 1.101-.073z\"\/><defs><linearGradient id=\"paint0_linear_549_34\" x1=\"37.0692\" y1=\"0\" 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Juli 2007","format":false,"excerpt":"\u201eDas ungepr\u00fcfte \u00dcbernehmen von angeblichen Zitaten, die dann auch noch aus dem Kontext gerissen werden, ist der Einstieg in den Gossenjournalismus.\u201c Don Alphonso in der Blogbar unter der \u00dcberschrift: Dreck von unten? - Lieber nochmal Nachfragen zum Fall J\u00f6rges Ich habs jetzt noch mal gepr\u00fcft, ein Zitat ist es auch\u2026","rel":"","context":"\u00c4hnlicher Beitrag","block_context":{"text":"\u00c4hnlicher Beitrag","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":8807,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2019\/08\/sendungen-zu-adorno-in-kw-32-uebersicht-ueber-weniges-2\/","url_meta":{"origin":8496,"position":1},"title":"Sendungen zu Adorno in KW 32 \u2013 \u00dcbersicht \u00fcber Weniges","author":"der huflaikhan","date":"5. August 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Sicher bin ich der letzte, der Gedanktagen besonders viel abgewinnen kann. Gedenktage werfen ein Schlaglicht: Pl\u00f6tzlich sind sie da, dann sind sie auch schon wieder weg. Morgen j\u00e4hrt sich der 50. Todestag von Theodor W. Adorno. Es ist zu erwarten, dass wenigstens die Publizistik sich dazu in einigen Artikel \u00e4u\u00dfern\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Zettelkasten&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Zettelkasten","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/zettelkasten\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":8808,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2019\/08\/sendungen-zu-adorno-in-kw-32-uebersicht-ueber-weniges\/","url_meta":{"origin":8496,"position":2},"title":"Sendungen zu Adorno in KW 32 \u2013 \u00dcbersicht \u00fcber Weniges","author":"der huflaikhan","date":"5. August 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Sicher bin ich der letzte, der Gedanktagen besonders viel abgewinnen kann. Gedenktage werfen ein Schlaglicht: Pl\u00f6tzlich sind sie da, dann sind sie auch schon wieder weg. Morgen j\u00e4hrt sich der 50. Todestag von Theodor W. Adorno. Es ist zu erwarten, dass wenigstens die Publizistik sich dazu in einigen Artikel \u00e4u\u00dfern\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Zettelkasten&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Zettelkasten","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/zettelkasten\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":9505,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2024\/04\/agrippa-von-nettesheim-addier-das-musikhoern\/","url_meta":{"origin":8496,"position":3},"title":"Agrippa von Nettesheim \/ Addier das! \/ Musikh\u00f6r\u2018n","author":"der huflaikhan","date":"1. April 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Ein Jahr Tsuki +++ Wer Musik \u201ewirklich\u201c h\u00f6rt, ist verloren.","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Angriff auf \u2026&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Angriff auf \u2026","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/angriffauf\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"04 01 To\u0308dliche Verlockungen","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/04\/04_01-Toedliche-Verlockungen.jpg?fit=1114%2C743&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/04\/04_01-Toedliche-Verlockungen.jpg?fit=1114%2C743&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/04\/04_01-Toedliche-Verlockungen.jpg?fit=1114%2C743&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/04\/04_01-Toedliche-Verlockungen.jpg?fit=1114%2C743&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/04\/04_01-Toedliche-Verlockungen.jpg?fit=1114%2C743&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":8473,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2014\/09\/jazz-ist-philosophie\/","url_meta":{"origin":8496,"position":4},"title":"Jazz ist Philosophie","author":"der huflaikhan","date":"1. September 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"Darauf habe ich gewartet: nach der Philosophie der Fuge, der Philosophie des Grunge und den ganzen Philosophien der Musik jetzt also eine Philosophie der Jazz. Dabei wird mir doch jeder zustimmen, der einigerma\u00dfen seine f\u00fcnf Sinne beisammen hat: Jazz ist Philosophie! Mittagessen ist Philosophie. Philosophie ist \u2026, nein,\u00a0\u2026 doch, ist\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;die Kultur&quot;","block_context":{"text":"die Kultur","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/angriffauf\/die-kultur\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":18097,"url":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/2026\/04\/ohne-rosenkohl-waere-die-welt-ein-irrtum\/","url_meta":{"origin":8496,"position":5},"title":"\u201eOhne Rosenkohl w\u00e4re die Welt ein Irrtum\u201c","author":"der huflaikhan","date":"24. April 2026","format":false,"excerpt":"Was hat Rosenkohl mit Musikkultur zu tun? Am Beispiel des Rosenkohls und des gleichnamigen Ph\u00e4nomens, lie\u00dfe sich einiges lernen f\u00fcr den gesellschaftlichen Umgang mit Musik im Allgemeinen und im Besonderen.","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Enzyklop\u00e4die der Kritischen Masse&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Enzyklop\u00e4die der Kritischen Masse","link":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/category\/enzyklopaedie-der-kritischen-masse\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8496","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8496"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8496\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/852"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8496"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8496"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kritische-masse.de\/logbuch\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8496"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}